IGEL Weekly: Seamless Transition to Windows 11 with IGEL OS - Part 1

Windows 10 goes end of life on the 14th of October 2025. By that date, Microsoft will stop providing free software updates from Windows update, no technical assistance will be offered and lastly, there will not be any more security fixes. Security fixes are a crucial part, and if you are on a system where a new vulnerability is exposed, and no more security fixes are going to be provided, you are in big trouble. Looking at last year’s increase of cyberattacks with ransomware, and how it affects companies, that is not an option!

Host: Andy Whiteside
Co-host: Bill Sutton
Co-host: Chris Feeney

Transcript

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Andy Whiteside: Hello, and welcome to Episode 98 of Igel weekly. I'm your host, Andy Whiteside. I've got 2 great guests with me today. I'm I'm laughing at myself because I every podcast, for those of you guys that get to watch this on Youtube, we have video. And I start every podcast, I say the name of, and then I run my fingers through my hair. It's just my nervous thing. I don't know why I do it. But I've noticed that I do it now. I find it amusing.

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Andy Whiteside: cause I can't stop. I don't know why, but I can't stop. Well, welcome to Igel weekly episode 98 super excited to have both Bill Sutton, who runs the the practice, the modern workspace practice that's integral only, and Chris Feeney, who's been I don't know. Just amazing, supporting us as a partner in his former role. And now in his current role.

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Andy Whiteside: Chris. I know you've moved from Channel Se. Channel. Se. Leader. What's your actual title now?

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Chris Feeney: Specifically vertical solutions. Director,

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Chris Feeney: which I started about a year ago because we were kind of reshaping under our new leadership. And it's kind of emerged since then. But it's it's definitely fallen under what's specifically our product marketing group. So now I roll under that.

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Chris Feeney: And, you know, have dotted lines obviously to the other organ parts of the organization that I've worked with the Channel team and and others. So

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Chris Feeney: but

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Chris Feeney: stuff like this that we're about to go through. I mean, I was already kind of.

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Chris Feeney: you know, using it. But now we actually using and doing it in terms of content creation and talking about, you know

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Chris Feeney: why I gel is, we think, one of the best products out there

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Chris Feeney: not a perfect product, but certainly a really good product, great product.

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Andy Whiteside: Tee you up. So you're you're you're transitioned into a role where you're doing integrations. Or how did you specifically say it.

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Chris Feeney: It's a vertical solutions record. So it's it's, you know.

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Andy Whiteside: Solutions director. So and that's why one. That's why you brought today this blog from Frederick. I'm gonna Brett's tig.

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Chris Feeney: Resting. Yeah. Breasting.

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Andy Whiteside: So he's been awesome over the last couple of years talking about, you know, windows and where windows fits and where where it doesn't fit. And where Igel can replace windows. Now, I'm gonna be honest. I am recording this podcast on a

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Andy Whiteside: on a windows based computer, a massive one it's got. I don't know. 256 gigs of memory. It is ridiculously powerful way more than I need. But then, as I was hitting record. I realized.

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Andy Whiteside: I mean, he record to the cloud.

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Andy Whiteside: I don't need windows anymore even to do a podcast. Like this.

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Andy Whiteside: I could get away with running Igel on. Just a not a bare bones, but a a basic ish machine, maybe maybe 16 gigs of memory. But you brought this because this is a big

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Andy Whiteside: message in the Igel world. You're not saying, Get rid of windows. You're seeing you're you're saying, follow Microsoft lead and connect to windows in the cloud. So why did you bring this specific article.

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Chris Feeney: Well, there's a date that's lingering out there just over a year away. About 11 or 13 months. October 14th

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Chris Feeney: of 2025 is the end of life for windows. 10

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Chris Feeney: and and so that's when a lot of customers. We've already seen him have been having to go through and figure out what their strategy is.

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Chris Feeney: You know. Can the existing hardware they already have run upgrade to, and also perform well on the new version? Or are they facing a scenario where they have to either consider new hardware to run the OS. Given the requirements and everything which we kind of outline in the blog here, and then

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Chris Feeney: certainly we get a chance to get in there and tell them, hey, there is another option.

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Chris Feeney: and then, obviously with you guys hey, there is another option, you know, and and then kind of lead them down the path. So

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Chris Feeney: but yeah, it's it's definitely

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Chris Feeney: similar to when that windows. 7 transition windows 10. I've been through it before. Many of us been in the industry for a long time kind of seen where this you know, transition naturally occurs, whether it's Xp to windows. What came after that windows? 7. I suppose.

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Andy Whiteside: Well, Chris, what do you think about windows? X.

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Chris Feeney: Honestly, I haven't really done a ton of looking into that. I haven't heard. I haven't heard a ton about it, you know. Given the what I just referred to.

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Andy Whiteside: Windows. Do you know what windows X is?

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Chris Feeney: Short answer is no other than the Wikipedia article you have in front of me.

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Andy Whiteside: The answer is no right, and you're in this industry, and you don't know Windows X. Is Bill. Do you know what Windows X is or was.

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Bill Sutton: No, sir.

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Andy Whiteside: Windows. X. Was a promise from the guys in Redmond that that would be the last client operating system, and we would never have to go through this crap again.

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Andy Whiteside: That's what Windows X was. I listened to podcasts like crazy about windows, back in the day, when I could stand to sit there and listen to the the this week in windows, or whatever it was, for 2 and a half hours, and listen to them talk about gaming and their weekend, and what kind of beers they drink just to get to the content. But one of the content was Windows X. Was going to be the last operating system. But oh, wait a minute. At the last minute they threw a number on at 10. You like perfect 10 I felt like Donald trump there with my fingers doing the perfect 10 thing.

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Chris Feeney: Like.

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Andy Whiteside: That was their last operating system for the client. Oh, but let's put a number on it just to be safe, and guess what now we're talking about the end of windows. 10. Just a handful of short years after we were promised. It was the end of the client versioning saga

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Andy Whiteside: and of course, I mean, technical guys like us knew it was going to be. There was going to be versions, but there would be no next thing that got marketed and sold as the next great operating system for the endpoint. Well, guess what? Here we are.

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Andy Whiteside: October 14th of next year. Windows. 10 is done, and we're all forced to get back on our hamster wheel and chase it.

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Chris Feeney: That's been a steady wheel for what? 30 years?

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Chris Feeney: And here we are once again. Right will the next version after 11 be x

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Chris Feeney: times, 2, or whatever.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah, yeah, that'll be. It'll be something guaranteed. It'll be something.

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Chris Feeney: So not part of the topic of this cast, but but because of what happened on July 19.th if you're not aware of that look it up I heard some inkling that Microsoft was now going back to revisit the idea of an OS. That limited Colonel access. There! That's a whole. Another conversation we could have. If that's gonna become a thing in the future for Microsoft. But today.

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Andy Whiteside: Chris.

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Andy Whiteside: did you say, Colonel.

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Chris Feeney: I did. Colonel KERN EL.

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Andy Whiteside: What's the kernel for this thing? Windows 11. Based on

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Andy Whiteside: what is the.

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Chris Feeney: Oh, oh, goodness! Dang it! We've talked about this! It's nt for sure nt 4.

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Andy Whiteside: It's go back to window. Go back to 1,995, not windows. 95. That'd be exactly the wrong thing to say, but go back to 1,995. It's the same dang kernel

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Andy Whiteside: just with a more advanced ui and a more advanced operating system around it

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Andy Whiteside: that we keep on his hamster wheel.

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Andy Whiteside: Well, we got the same vulnerable issue. Prone kernel. It's magical. Don't get me wrong, can do a lot of things. It's also very powerful.

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Andy Whiteside: You see the conundrum. Why, people like me are going. Why are you still running windows when you don't have to run windows on these inputs?

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Chris Feeney: Yeah, no, it's certainly like, there's this one

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Chris Feeney: you'll hear if you haven't heard about this boot to cloud right? Well, that's all great.

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Chris Feeney: You could totally do it on Igel. It it, you know, just boot from a non windows device to get directly to your windows. Machine.

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Chris Feeney: you know. And so why? Why need? Why do you need windows on the endpoint? Necessarily. And so there might be a legitimate reason. But you know as much as possible.

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Chris Feeney: What we've provided is a a more secure option on your endpoint. Current ones even going back in time, depending on what the hardware requires, and depending on the workload and the needs and so and then, of course, if you do need new hardware, there's some great vendors out there we work with that have.

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Chris Feeney: you know, great hardware that can run ideal very well, and also windows from a cloud workspace on prem or hybrid, or whatever.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah. So Chris, let's just point out, and we'll move on, because I know you got a lot to cover, and I know you've got a limited amount of time today. But the hardware minimal minimal requirement.

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Andy Whiteside: Oh, my goodness, I can't believe they're even saying this dual core one gigahertz minimum for the CPU RAM. I guess this is assuming you don't want to run the applications, including the browser. Ram is 4 gigs. Now we we all know that's at least 16 to be functional storage is 64 gigs. If you just want to install the operating system and maybe an app or 2 maybe cash some of those cookies

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Chris Feeney: Dates. Don't forget the updates.

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Andy Whiteside: Uefi secure boot. Got that? Tpm, 2 dot o got that.

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Bill Sutton: I think.

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Andy Whiteside: Graphics, graphics, graphics. Direct x 11 wddm, 2 dot. O, Chris, we don't have to. Hark! We don't have to focus on. We we just know that the hardware requirements gonna continue and continue to grow as we run windows. Bill, I've had you kind of sitting at bay. I I didn't think you'd expect me to get this passionate about this is but this is madness to me.

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Andy Whiteside: and I and I I really do struggle with the fact that I got to bring this up to customers, and they just accept it as status quo and normal bill. General thoughts on this before we move into the the Yigel portion.

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Bill Sutton: No, I I agree. 4 gigs of RAM is

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Bill Sutton: minimal for this. No, I it it is craziness that that's the minimum specs. And I think. If you look at most cloud Pcs, they're they're running at least 4 to 5 times of that or more. Yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah, at least at least if you want to be functional. So the the messaging out of Redmond is, don't deploy windows anymore. Mr. Business, Mr. Businesses of all sizes you need to to deliver, not deploy in the article here says, Make it's time to make a shift to virtualized windows

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Andy Whiteside: and connect remotely. That's the key part over a presentation protocol like Rdp. Or Hdx Protocol Bill and I will call it Ica until we die, I'm sure. And here's the reasons why. Stability. Okay, great stability. As long as you have a decent network connection, stability, access from anywhere again, as long as you have a decent network connection, high speed connect to data, slim, connect to the user endpoint.

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Andy Whiteside: so high speed connected to data, slim, connect. Imagine, Christia, I'm sorry. What does this one specifically mean?

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Bill Sutton: I can take a stab at it.

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Chris Feeney: Yeah, go ahead. You know, those those digestives are just highlighted.

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Bill Sutton: I think this goes back to the days, Andy, where we said, When you're doing Vdi put the Vdi

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Bill Sutton: the Vdi device, not the device, but the actual virtual desktop itself as close to the data as possible. So I think, what's what's that's what they're getting at here. You don't need a

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Bill Sutton: super high speed connection to the endpoint device. But you need a decent connection from the resulting Vdi location to the data.

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Chris Feeney: 100%. Yeah, that's exactly what that's referring to it. It

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Chris Feeney: and then the proof of the pudding here for me is, I remember literally flying to Denver getting to a

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Chris Feeney: A. An office space. I didn't have time to find out what their guest Wi-fi was, so I just fired up a hotspot got on my Abd ran a team's call with video audio from my hotspot, which probably had maybe

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Chris Feeney: 3 bars, and it was perfectly fine, so not a terror, not a very fast, I would say. Connection to the endpoint. But the back end was completely fine, and the hardware I was using was able to handle all of that. So

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Chris Feeney: it doesn't require much, you know, in terms of that. And just with the with the the protocols and the compression, and all that stuff and

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Chris Feeney: but it is going to be really nice to have a a much higher speed

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Chris Feeney: on the back end.

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Andy Whiteside: And and Chris. I listened to the control up podcast with Benny and Doug Brown the other day, and they made a really good point the thinnest way to do that. The thinnest way to do that is, with an HTML 5 browser running on anything windows. Mac.

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Andy Whiteside: Linux Igel Linux you name. It is the thinnest way, and we as Vdi guys, and at publishing, or at present presentation guys.

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Andy Whiteside: we've benefited greatly from the advancements in HTML 5, and the compression and delivery of of tech data that lives on the back end just like we're talking about here. We've benefited greatly from that that's been the number one driver for the the user experience that we're getting in the Vdi is the stuff that's actually happening in the browser. Which is the thing that's threatening to kill Vdi and app publishing the most.

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Chris Feeney: Yeah, no, certainly. I mean, I've tried to work out of a browser all day long from an Igel device, and for the most part honestly for what I need.

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Chris Feeney: It was completely doable.

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Chris Feeney: and especially if you're, you know, traveling, you just need access to, you know. But but that that

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Chris Feeney: HTML 5 browser brings a lot of capabilities in. Now you throw in a secure browser that you guys I know are very familiar with

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Chris Feeney: a couple options there whether it's delivered from Citrix or the island, or what have you?

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Chris Feeney: You know you you can have a lot of control down there at the endpoint. And and certainly, if you need a windows, access to to machine, you know, you can secure that through various means.

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Andy Whiteside: Let's talk about security, because that's 1 of the that's the I skip multi session on purpose. I'll come back to that. Yeah. But security.

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Andy Whiteside: All of this

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Andy Whiteside: is simplified. And what's happening that really matters is back in the data center, whether it's delivering it to an HTML 5 browser, or whether it's Vdi or published app. It's security is paramount in all this. Let's let's let's let's let the stuff closer into where the data is. But let's let it into a place where we can keep an eye on it, control it because the the endpoints

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Andy Whiteside: and I'm using a term here that I was watching the Wyatt Earp documentary last night, and I tied this to our world. Here the endpoints are and always will be, the Wild Wild West.

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Chris Feeney: Yeah, certainly. And and controlling what's on them.

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Chris Feeney: I mean, that's really the biggest thing is if that data is on the device.

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Chris Feeney: and you can't manage control it, I mean, and it gets stolen, lost whatever I mean. You're in a you know. It's a conundrum right? Whereas what we've talked about for years, even when I 1st came here.

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Chris Feeney: you know, other than the configuration of the device.

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Chris Feeney: We don't have any data on the device, you know, and we can protect the config of the device if we wanted to, with some additional encryption.

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Chris Feeney: but beyond that, I mean, there's really, I mean nothing gets lost. I mean, if it comes back online, you can already have it moved to a spot where it just completely reconfigures itself, you know, and you can. Also, today, we've got some

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Chris Feeney: you know, integrations where you can, you know, specifically say, if it's if it's not an ideal device, and somebody tries to access our resources.

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Chris Feeney: you know, you can completely block it, you know. I mean.

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Andy Whiteside: But, Bill, I know you're a big fan of gun smoke right.

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Bill Sutton: I watched it back in the day. Yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: What's what's the one way? What's the one and only way they controlled the gun violence in the, in the, in the towns, in the in the west.

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Bill Sutton: The sheriff.

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Andy Whiteside: Well, but they took the guns away eventually from the people who came into town, gave them to the sheriff. He would hold them for them while they were in town and and the the law marsh or the the lawyer, the law lawyers the the law enforcers the sheriff, or whoever they were, the only ones with the guns, and that's the only way. So they they took the gun away from.

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Andy Whiteside: In this case we're talking about here is, take the gun away, give them a, you know. Give them a I don't know something else, something much more mitigated like a Linux endpoint and say, Go, have fun in our town, and when you leave town we'll give your guns back.

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Bill Sutton: We're gonna be Marshall Dylan is what you're saying.

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Andy Whiteside: That's the the idea is, get windows out of the endpoint. And now alright! So let me go back to this one. This all is kind of madness that we would deliver windows. However, we've gotten protocols that are better. We've got networks that are better. We've got efficiency. That's happening all over the place and

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Andy Whiteside: germol, please. We have multi session, multi session. Because Microsoft wants these workloads in azure, they've kind of made it to where you kind of have to put them in azure. If you really want the endpoint workloads to be in the cloud, and the only time the only time this makes sense at scale is we? You get multiple sessions, whether it's 2 users using a single vm or 60

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Andy Whiteside: it's the only time it makes cost effective sense for the masses to do it. This way is through the power flat. You guys probably heard me say this, that there was some ex. There was some candidate for a release from Microsoft 20 years ago that had multi session in it. I was so excited about it, and then it went away. And all here comes back all of a sudden, you know, 20 years later. Do you guys agree that the cost effectiveness of this is only

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Andy Whiteside: possible through multi-session.

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Bill Sutton: I agree with that. Obviously, that's that's been the cost. Effectiveness of Vdi is the ability to run it on a

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Bill Sutton: multi-user system. Whether it's a server, or now a desktop. So yes, absolutely.

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Chris Feeney: Yeah. And I think there's been, you know, multiple phases of this right with from the licensing perspective. You know, I I early on in my career, thought Vdi was gonna be the thing only to find out that way. It was licensed was prohibitive. That's why you saw, you know, more multi session

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Chris Feeney: experiences deploy whether it was desktops or or certainly with apps. So it's yeah to to completely sunset. That type of solution makes no sense.

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Chris Feeney: But to better manage it in the cloud is where you have other part. Other products like in the case of Abd Nerdio certainly brings a cost effective

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Chris Feeney: means for managing that environment.

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Chris Feeney: So there's there's certainly a lot we could. We could cover here.

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Andy Whiteside: I think what we just decided. We'll make this part one and we'll do part. This is like the most valuable topic in the world of Igel, and in the world of end user compute. As far as I'm.

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Chris Feeney: Yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: The.

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Chris Feeney: So we'll call this part one definitely part one cause

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Chris Feeney: we haven't really talked about the hardware requirements comparison that's coming up in the blog.

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Andy Whiteside: So I got a yes, no question for both. You guys, Bill, I'll start with you first.st Multi session is the only way this

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Andy Whiteside: deliver versus deploy. World makes sense financially, yes or no.

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Bill Sutton: Yes.

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Andy Whiteside: Yes, Chris, same question. Multi-spection is the only way to make it happen. Yes, right?

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Andy Whiteside: Well, I don't understand. Guys. You you don't see value in security.

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Andy Whiteside: The the my question simply is the only way to cost. Justify this self. This I I'll tell you that if you're avoiding a future ransomware attack that cost you millions and millions of dollars, even without multi session. I think I'm actually calling myself a liar from like 30 seconds ago or 3 min ago.

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Andy Whiteside: If you look at it from a cost of what security is going to be, if you get exploited, which you will, it's not if it's when

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Andy Whiteside: then, even if you had made one to one potentially even persistent but hopefully non persistent sessions

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Andy Whiteside: you can cost, justify it. If you have a big brain, thinking of what the total cost of what could be.

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Andy Whiteside: Bill? You change your answer, yes or no.

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Bill Sutton: I think it's both. I it it's probably both. We both help justify the cost, but certainly security. I would say to the original question. Probably no, that security would be the the bigger cost justifier. It's certainly a lot easier in today's world after what's happened recently to justify the security benefits of this as the biggest saver. Yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: Chris, you just tweak your answer a little bit now that you got security has value, multi session has value.

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Andy Whiteside: Say yes to.

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Chris Feeney: They. They all have value, I think, with the opportunity here, which is kind of leading to maybe part 2 of this blog and this podcast is

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Chris Feeney: rethinking your entire ideas about security.

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Chris Feeney: If you don't have windows on the endpoint, and why? We believe

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Chris Feeney: you know

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Chris Feeney: we should be part of that conversation, and you do a fantastic job of bringing that up.

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Chris Feeney: because when you do include it.

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Chris Feeney: then it opens up your opportunities to consume

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Chris Feeney: a multi-session. OS, because your security posture is much greater, because you're running agile on the endpoint. So

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Andy Whiteside: If you can tie a dollar, amount to this security conversation, it can trump everything else in the conversation, and it would be a must do.

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Chris Feeney: Yeah, absolutely. And we're we're already seeing that with again going back to July 19, th even my daughter mentioned that one of her friends who's a nurse in a healthcare environment in the Midwest.

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Chris Feeney: They got backed up over a month because of the impact.

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Chris Feeney: Yeah, of a month.

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Andy Whiteside: So let me put it like this, Bill, if you can take this one

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Andy Whiteside: and see cost justification here, and you can take the this one being multi session, this one being security and then avoiding the next big security thing that we all know is coming. It is coming, it is coming. We wake up every Monday morning. Is this the week?

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Andy Whiteside: Well, couple of weeks ago it was one of those weeks it's coming, but if you take these 2 and add them together. This is a no brainer, isn't it?

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Bill Sutton: In my view. Yes.

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Andy Whiteside: So why in the world are we? How still having to have conversations with customers who have not even begun to think about this as the alternative. My answer, my answer on that one is, they've just been brainwashed as status quo and getting them to think differently is our number one struggle.

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Bill Sutton: That is absolutely our number one struggle, because the the one, the one.

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Bill Sutton: the one question that customers ask, that that I don't see. It's probably in here somewhere, is what if I don't have connectivity

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Bill Sutton: which is less common than it used to be? But it still happens.

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Andy Whiteside: Hey, Chris, I know you're out of time. You had another meeting to go to right.

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Chris Feeney: I do, but I think we've we've teed this up for Part 2. So.

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Bill Sutton: Right.

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Andy Whiteside: Yeah, guys, I appreciate the time. Today we'll make this part one and we'll start Part 2 with, why, I gel to answer all these questions. Maybe we've kind of alluded to some of it already. But let's talk about for real. Why, I gel and why people should consider the it ain't windows endpoint conversation. Yeah.

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Andy Whiteside: guys, we'll talk to you next week.

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Chris Feeney: Alright, thanks, Andy, thanks, Bill. Yep.